The University of Life
The University of Life podcast has become my personal collection of fascinating learnings from the people I meet and experiences I have as I explore life and journey deeper in to the space of business mentoring & life coaching.
The University of Life
The University of Life & Andi Granja
Have you ever wondered why some people effortlessly captivate audiences while others struggle to convey their ideas?
Join me as I speak with Andy, an expert in marketing and social media, who reveals actionable strategies to refine your communication skills and make a lasting impact.
Discover the power of passion and focus in communication as Andy dives into the importance of targeting specific groups to create more meaningful connections.
Understand the pitfalls of trying to please everyone and how this impacts how we communicate and how others relate to what we have to say.
Finally, we explore the journey of discovering one's passion and the fulfillment that comes from helping others.
With personal anecdotes and practical advice, we explore how to transform the way you communicate with others and resonate with your audience.
If ever you'd like to connect, please don't hesitate to connect via my website www.jamiewhite.com.
I am always open to feedback, reflections, guest / subject recommendations and anything else that might come up.
Thank you for listening, Jamie x
Andy, how do you describe what you do?
Speaker 2:Boy, I do a little bit of everything, but I do all things communication, marketing, social media that's like what I love and what I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, social media, that's like what I love and what I do. Yeah, as a bit of background, I have, over the last few months, hired and partnered up with Andy to help me communicate that little bit better, and it's something that I think all of us can benefit enormously from. I have found myself, oh and this is very confronting to like a listener of my podcast. I was about to. I have found myself, oh and this is very confronting to like a listener of my podcast. I was about to say. I have found myself waffling at times and I'm thinking anybody that's listened for a little while has been like yes, yes, could you get to the point? And it's something I'm conscious of that I was like I would like to be able to communicate more clearly and more concisely, and essentially that's what you work with people on when it comes to marketing messages, and social media is like if you're going to put a post out there, get to the point. Yeah, be more clear, deliver more value to the person in less time, be more efficient.
Speaker 2:Would that, be fair to say, absolutely. Um, like. We live in a world where attention span is in, people's attention span are three to five seconds tops, and so, to put it in your words, when you're a waffler, it's hard to grab people's attention yeah, I was kind of thinking you lose people before you even get going. Yeah, basically.
Speaker 1:So I'm conscious of this, not just on social media, but like if it's a speaking engagement, if it's an opportunity with a client or something like that, if you waffle too much, you completely distract the flow of conversation. And so to work with somebody to help essentially improve communication skills and communicate more efficiently, it's really impacting, right yeah.
Speaker 2:It's really, really important nowadays.
Speaker 1:I would think, growing almost more and more important.
Speaker 2:As people become more and more consumed by fast-paced content, their attention for slow based communication just is dwindling less and less and less right, yeah, absolutely Like people are just so used to getting everything, getting all of the knowledge getting oh okay, this video is going to teach me this, this video I'm watching this for this that they are just expecting for everything to be super fast paced, and so when you come and you're slow paced, people's attention span just goes away yeah and so it's super important to actually learn how to grab their attention from the very first approach that you have with them and also to create that connection with them.
Speaker 2:You always want to create a connection with them, right yeah.
Speaker 1:so, as you're sharing this, what, what's coming up for me is that, like the most fundamental skills that we can have, as in like, how to communicate, how to relate I was listening to gothman's talk about this and they were like we don't do a master's in relating in school or in college and and few of us would do it similarly speaking in communication skills, but these are like the fundamental building blocks of how we, how we flow in life and, um, and for me, I kind of suppose I just started my journey in self-development like at 15 or 16 in the gym, I was like, oh, working out was fantastic, until this kind of concept of like, okay, well, working out is great, but what about working in and like, working on your mind, um, working on my breath was like really interesting.
Speaker 1:Working on communication skills. It's really confronting when, like so I sit in front of Andy sometimes and she'll ask me a question and she's like, so, jamie, what's your thoughts on this? And I'll talk, and then I'll see her being like lost me, not good enough, and it's it's amazing to recognize sometimes, when people hold up a mirror in front of you, how much of a waffler you are, yeah, or how off the point you go and if you think about that, how distracting you are when you're communicating, how hard it is you're actually making it for the other person to engage with you, right, yeah, yeah, seriously, good training yeah, it is, it is.
Speaker 2:it is fantastic to see someone try to almost brain dump on you all the knowledge that they have, but for it not to be appreciated by people because of that short attention span right, because of everything should be fast-paced, and so I would like to think that that's where I come in and be like let's try to rearrange that so we have like little nuggets of amazing information easily digestible, so that we don't lose the people and people don't miss out on what you have to offer for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because what I find is that there's a lot of very, very smart people, that don't necessarily know how to communicate and, unfortunately, speaking, go highly unappreciated.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And right now I certainly recognize a lot of people that perhaps aren't as smart, but they're fantastic communicators, and the way in which they communicate brings such clarity to their points that people can receive them, people will appreciate them, and people will perceive them as far more intellectual than they are really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely that happens every single day. Yeah, absolutely that happens every single day. It's just okay. You, some people are just better at it or feel comfortable at creating content, you know, and they are just good at communicating those bits, those aha bits, that people are like, whoa, okay, this guy, this girl, fantastic, I need to follow them for life, when there are so many people that have so much knowledge to share but they actually don't know how to, or they get lost, or they're scared of it, and they like, oh, and put, and, on top of that, put them in front of the camera and it's like, no, you lost me, so yeah, it's funny, as you're speaking you're reminding me of.
Speaker 1:I remember dating this model once and I went to take a photo of her and I've never seen somebody like click into shape of like. I was like so photo time and then suddenly this like amazing pose came up and then a second later, a new pose and a second later another pose and I was like, ah, it's not just as simple as being really pretty.
Speaker 1:There's there's angles to play yeah and I remember then, when she was like, no, look here, let me take a photo of you, but just, could you put your hand this way, could you look that way, could you breathe in? I was like, oh my god, these photos are amazing, and I recognize that it's not just that world, it's everything. Yeah, in all aspects of life. There are, let's say, little different tweaks and angles and tools that we can apply absolutely to bring out our best, and one of the most fundamental in these is communicating.
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, I'm gonna put you on the spot. Are you ready? Say, if you're working with somebody and you're like okay, I want to cover the bases here, and I always think it's easier to bring someone from zero to 80 percent quickly. Okay, the extra 20 is a bit challenging, but if you're trying to make all almost, let's say, the most impacting, um, so the biggest impact on somebody, really quickly, what are the like, the fundamental tools, let's say, of like, here's how you can communicate a hell of a lot better, really quickly, what comes up for you?
Speaker 2:um, first of all, you need to be very sure that where you're going to communicate, you actually love, okay, what you're trying to communicate okay, so that comes up a lot because a lot of people are talking into spaces that they don't have a clue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if you don't have a clue, keep your mouth shut.
Speaker 2:Yes, Okay, great, because, yeah, it's like someone told me I should do this, and then, yeah, it's easy to just follow on what someone tells you to do. But then along the way, you're like why are you even doing this? And I can absolutely tell from the get-go if you're not passionate about what you're talking about, about what you're actually doing. Okay. So, first of all, you need to really be clear on okay, are you passionate about this? Do you really love this thing that you're doing? Then great.
Speaker 1:Okay, stay in your lane when it comes to communicating. Don't talk about subjects that you don't know are like.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Stay in the space of passion, because that passion actually is so magnetic. If you can hear passion in somebody's voice, that in itself brings somebody in right. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then there's this like belief that talk to everyone you know and just talk about everything. And no, it's quite the opposite. It's just stay in your lane, talk about what you know and talk to the people that you decide that you want to talk to. It's so important to change the speech to I am talking to these people that I want them to be on my community, that just to talk to everyone and see, uh, maybe someone picks it up.
Speaker 1:So that's really interesting for me, right, because I found at a young age like God, 21, 22, I had a large platform. I used to promote loads of nightclubs and have these magazines, and I found myself speaking and like a lot of people would hear. Some people would like what I have to say, other people were repulsed by what I had to say, and a big challenge to me was that I was like I want to talk in a universal fashion, and a big challenge to me was that I was like I want to talk in a universal fashion, I want to speak in an unfallible fashion where if I say something, nobody can critique it. And what I found very quickly is that actually, the way in which I spoke and communicated just became very vague. Yeah, it was like what is he actually saying? And I would have that reflected back to me. I'd be like Jamie, what are you?
Speaker 1:saying Where's your opinion, and that, for me, certainly came from trying to speak to everybody all at once, whereas what I'm hearing from you is like Jamie, if you're actually speaking to one particular person or one person or one group of people, you can speak clearly, whereas the wider that goes, the more vague things become, the more hard it is to hear what it is that you're actually saying, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, because you're trying to just bring so many things in that your message just gets lost in between.
Speaker 2:And it's so funny that we're talking about this, because I think it was like on our first session together that you were just talking and talking and I was like, wow, this guy really just talks to the masses. It's like I can put you on a stand and it's like a presidential speech. You know, you talk to the mass, to the masses, and then my I think one of the first comments or feedback that I gave you was like talk to me. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, stop thinking about pleasing everyone and giving everyone an answer and just focus on talking to me. And. I think that's super important in not just you know, because, yes, you get lost into like talking, to trying to talk to everyone. So, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm thinking of the politician, and I've heard so many politicians when they speak that it's very easy actually to get distracted by their tone and their expression.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Which feels exciting and feels passionate. But actually if you push that aside and you really listen to what they're saying, it's like wait, they said absolutely nothing. And I could do that. I could stand up on stage and, let's say, perform, but it'd be like wait, what did he actually say? And so what I'm hearing from you is one, stay in your lane, talk about what it is that you're passionate about.
Speaker 1:but two, talk to a particular person and, and in that there's a recognition of like, hey look, it's okay, some people aren't going to like what you're saying yeah, absolutely but others are, and if you pick a particular audience, at least they're going to hear what you have to say, at least there's going to be substance in what you say, rather than this vagueness that, unfortunately speaking, is abundantly everywhere right now yeah yeah, and in doing what everybody else does, you unfortunately blend into that sameness. So if you want to communicate and you want to actually have a voice, you really have to exercise it yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:You have to keep on that consistency of talking to someone, talking to your audience, like, yeah, if your message gets spread and more people start coming, great, but you're not focusing on them, you're focusing, focusing on your people, on your audience.
Speaker 1:I feel like I am slightly distracting you here because I really want point three, but on point two, is there a recognition then that actually, if you are communicating well, yeah, you're going to be talking to one person's ears or a certain group of people's ears and in that you have to open yourself to opinion. You have to open yourself to yeah, you're going to say something and some people will like you, but other people won't. Yeah, that's actually, in its own way, a clear indication that you're you're communicating clearly yes, absolutely okay.
Speaker 1:So hand in hand with successful communication comes a bit of conflict and challenge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. We're always going to have conflict. There's always going to be haters. You know haters are going to hate and that's all right. I mean, I actually find it better to have people that disagree with what you're saying. But you, you know that you have an audience, you know that you have a message, you know that you're carrying your message for your audience for your community and if you're developing better connections with your community, you're fine yeah, I'm.
Speaker 1:I'm recognizing for me when I reflect back on myself, and that universal tone that I wanted to take and communicative style. I didn't want to. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't want to deal with um misunderstandings I didn't want somebody to come into conflict with my points or my opinions, but I really recognized it was just vapid, empty May as well, have not actually said anything, and that's actually really sad to have a voice and not use it for fear of challenge or for fear of misunderstanding.
Speaker 1:It's a kind of I'm going to feel that that was the way society impressed upon me that I should speak up. Don't, yeah, don't create disturbances Don't create disturbances, but unfortunately that just vanillared me.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And then you're, you're blended with everyone else, and how are you going to stand out in a world with hundreds of millions of people creating? Yeah. You need to be true to yourself. You need to be yourself.
Speaker 1:Accept that in your truth. Some will love it, and that's great, and some will hate it, and that's great too.
Speaker 2:And that's also great.
Speaker 1:Indicative of progress and clarity.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Lovely Okay, you clarity. Yeah, lovely. Okay, you ready? Yeah, third, third one. No, because that actually there's so much in that. Speak to your audience, be accepting of misunderstanding, be accepting of challenge. What comes up as like a third pointer for somebody who's trying to develop their communications skills or develop their voice?
Speaker 2:I would say the over planning and that fear of just getting started. That's one of I think it's one of the biggest steps to overcome people usually get lost on I need to plan, I need to plan, okay, okay, okay, in a month I will start creating the content, doing this or doing whatever it is that they're doing right. And then something always comes up and they just keep on using that as an excuse of maybe next week, maybe next week. And so I always say, like, start today, like I don't care how much planning you want to do, keep your planning, yes, but you need to start to start today yeah, there's nothing like jumping in the deep end to learn fast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's nothing that, for me anyway, sees me learn slower than prep preparatory work and getting lost in that. Pre I started thinking and distracting myself with every possible eventuality and every possible way of doing something, and I actually don't really do much yeah um, so what you're saying is practice, and whether that's like if you're trying to develop your speaking skills, join a speaking club and speak, or if it's on social media where so many people are like.
Speaker 1:I don't know how to post, it's like. Well, the easiest way is to challenge yourself to post every day Exactly, and pretty soon you're going to get better at it because you've committed yourself to that trajectory.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so it's. It's super funny for me because I find in every, in every industry. Let's say, I find a yoga teacher and they're like oh, yeah, no, okay, I, I am going to start next month. And it's like okay, you know that you practice yoga every single day. Right, and that's how you've, you've, your practice have grown. It's the exact same thing with your communication skills. If you don't practice them, if you don't exercise, do them, you're never going to get better yeah but it's that fear.
Speaker 1:You know that prepping, that planning, no, you just need to deep dive into it and throw yourself out of the cliff, if you will well, it's funny when you share that for me, because the analogy of like the gym comes up for me yeah, absolutely like a lot of us are me going into the gym and building bad habits and then being very hard to rewrite with the trainer, like so, when I think of communication skills and like jumping into the deep end, I'm thinking of like you know, because somebody might listen to that and be like, hey, I'm communicating every day.
Speaker 1:What are you talking about? It's like no, we are passively communicating every day. Yeah, we are generally word vomiting on people yeah, and to switch that to a more conscious effort when communicating, to challenge yourself to speak more clearly yeah, and to communicate more efficiently, that's what this is all about. And to almost review a conversation with yourself and be like how did I communicate? Was I clear? Was I to the point? Did the person understand what I said? Yeah, I love it. So once a week, I sit in front of Andy and she asks these questions and I answer them and she gives feedback and it's a really constructive process it's a simple process and I think oftentimes the simple things that we do are overlooked.
Speaker 1:But they can't. They have the ability or capacity to be the most impacting yeah, absolutely like, if we think about, our life is made up of all these different conversations that we have every day, with ourselves as well absolutely and if we're uh, yeah, if we can, if we can better that, if we can better the, let's say, the, the way in which we're communicating with others, we can get more, feel more connected, yeah, feel more impact, make greater progress and, ultimately speaking, feel more at peace.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, which is the ultimate goal?
Speaker 1:so yeah, absolutely uh, okay, I I I'm curious how the hell did you get into this space? I probably should have asked you this before we started working together, but but it's like it's a really cool field. It must be very fulfilling seeing someone actually get over their communication blocks. How did you find yourself in this space?
Speaker 2:It's super funny because back then and then years, throwing it back to years and years before, when I was in high school, I usually was the friend that all of my friends would come to my place and I would play teacher and that's how we would study for like exams, you know. And so my house would be like covered with like papers on the walls and I would like be writing like we need to study. I don't know geography, so the capitals of the cities, right, or the capitals of the countries, and I would be right, you would find me writing in like this papers that my house would be covered in, like writing everything sorry one second.
Speaker 1:What age were you?
Speaker 2:I was in high school high school is what age?
Speaker 1:15, 16 okay, I have heard of dorks before and this is like a whole new level. Oh my gosh, you would, you would you didn't have your cup full of school that actually, when school finished, you would come home and play more school yeah, yeah, absolutely oh my gosh wow because it was just like a great way for me and for my friends to study.
Speaker 2:You know I would be. I have always been good at okay, reading something and thinking, okay, what's my major takeaway from this? This little message, and that that's how I studied, that's how I helped my friends study.
Speaker 2:And so, if you put it now fast forward, how many years have it been after that? I basically do the same thing. I grab information and I put it in a way and in a sense that you get what you need out of that ginormous tons of information. I put it or I work for it in a way that it serves people to understand and get the message better so you've been doing this since the age of 14 15.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I'm just thinking of cultural differences. Yes, so when I was 14, 15, hanging around corners and like doing nothing with myself, basically you were running study groups.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Wow, and is this the norm in Ecuador?
Speaker 2:I don't think it's the norm was.
Speaker 1:it was just how I did it, wow, and my friends would come over to my house and we would do it that way and that's how you built your connections essentially with your friends that you like, they, they saw this great skill in you and you all bonded and connected over this expertise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh my gosh and so I in life, I got lost into the what would I, what should I do? And I studied a bunch of stuff and I did, and I had so many jobs. But then if there's one thing that it always add to the same thing, it's I've always been doing the exact same thing. It's like no. From all of this, from this ginormous email that you just sent me, the only thing that matters is, that is, are those three lines?
Speaker 2:yeah and then fast forward to now it's it's it's what I do and it's why what I love love doing and you feel love and connection from it too right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and I've, like, I share this with you all the time on our sessions. It's like it's so fulfilling to watch you from that first session that we had to, how now you actually are starting to communicate, to, okay, understand things better. You are now, you know, now, after you've done a video you know that was waffly, oh no, no, no, this is this was better, this was concise and it's like ah, it's just such a great feeling and it's the exact same feeling I got from teaching my friends and being like, hey, this is this and this is that.
Speaker 1:It's like ah, it's so nice to see the growth. I bring up this quote so often. But Steve Jobs when he shares that, like you, can't connect the dots looking forward. But they all make sense when you look back and I love that you can look back and trace back to being 14, 15, that this was your skill and all the different jobs that you had in between were essentially refining and developing the skills where you are right now. Yeah, I look back and the pattern amongst everything that I did as well was there was always a level of coaching. There was always a level of me helping people figure themselves out. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And helping people do things more efficiently, helping people thrive, and back then I had no idea what it would look like going forward. Yeah, me either. But now it's like, oh yeah, that just makes so much sense. And I, similarly speaking, I take so much pride and fulfillment when I see somebody breaking through their own boundaries or their blocks are like stepping up to a new level of potential. I'm like go you. I feel so much from that and you feel similarly when you you see people getting to the point yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And then I've always known and I was a cheerleader too in school.
Speaker 1:I am a great cheerleader still now in life lovely, so you love helping people and then cheering them on yeah, it's, it's literally that yeah, so it's an interesting sphere, like, like, so coaching it's the fastest growing space at the moment, absolutely in terms of career, and it really is, because there is coaching everything yes and I have found myself sitting in front of so many people being like would you just get to the point, come on hurry up and I love it.
Speaker 1:I love our work together. I love exactly as like it's very confronting, recognizing hey, you're waffling. Hey, get to the point, stop distracting I know but so helpful, so positively impacting. And I, I, I can just see all the different. Like I, I've jumped into so many different areas of coaching, but what I recognize is the more fundamental you get, the more impacting, because it just it, it spreads into so many other areas of your life and to work on the simplest thing of your communication skills makes so much sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they are so, so important.
Speaker 1:I normally ask, like I have this kind of question. I'm like you know, when you reflect back on your years to where you are right now, what do you think was like one of the key lessons that led you to where you are? But actually you seem to discover pretty early it like oh no, this is what I've always been doing.
Speaker 2:I mean, yes, but then it hasn't always been like that, like I got my years when I just got maybe lost in. Okay, I work for a company and I'm assigned a job, you know, and you just follow what you have to do. But then, looking back, yeah, I always into that, even in that following of this is what you do I always find myself doing the exact same thing that I do and it's like, okay, yeah, this is great how you do it, but how about we do it this way?
Speaker 1:My imagination is getting the better of me. I'm thinking were you born to parents that just talked nonstop and never made any points whatsoever? Were you the victim of awful communication?
Speaker 2:No, no no.
Speaker 1:No, this just kind of came.
Speaker 2:Maybe I don't think, I don't know, but no, but that wasn't the case in my family. Like, if we're trying to track it down, like to back then, that wasn't the case. Like I grew up in a family where actually there wasn't much communication, because I have a dad, that it's like what I'm saying is how it's done, you know and so there wasn't much room for arguing or waffling no, now. This makes so much sense it was like okay, it's this way so your father was clear into the point absolutely it was I like it green.
Speaker 1:We're all going to do green and so you really didn't have too much time, space, humor for no lack of clarity.
Speaker 1:yeah, and you'll be like, get to the point. And so when it came to school and it came to teaching, you were like, okay, that's all fine, but here's the core point. Is that correct? And for others, who didn't necessarily have that attachment or the connection to the point, you were able to say that's what this lesson was about. Yeah, here's what you need to know. You don't need to know anything else. This is the core points.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the core points. Yeah, okay, I am. My brain is a constant. That could have been an email. You know where you go to a meeting and you have a three-hour meeting and you're sitting there all the time thinking this is not helping, this is not adding to anything, and then, finally, you find the one key thing out of it. My brain is thinking and working that way all day long. From everything that I do, it's like this could have been just this, this could have been just this.
Speaker 1:That's just how it works so, when it comes to now, you're not just efficient in terms of communication, you're efficient to all other areas of your life.
Speaker 2:I try to.
Speaker 1:Try to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know if I'm being successful at it in every single area of my life, but I try to be concise.
Speaker 1:So where does this show up most successfully separate to your communication?
Speaker 2:I have no idea.
Speaker 2:interesting one to sit on absolutely but yeah, no, I training I, yeah, I know I actually think, like if we're sitting on it and talking about it, I actually think it's just how I conduct my everyday life, like I am super specific with my timing, with what I do throughout the day. It's like I'm going to train and so I go, and I make sure that I focus on what I need to do and it's like OK, done, done. My workout, my workout, is very important in my life. I will say, and then I move on to the next task and I will look for ways to make things easier, to make things move faster.
Speaker 1:So I love. I've been an observer for God as long as I can remember. I love people watching. What I recognize in you is it's almost comical how organized you are. So, for the benefit of the listener, andy's phone is color coded. Her apps are all follow different colors. So, for example, say, like all the social media apps on her phone are a single color so she can easily identify them. Then they're similarly folded and then the work-related apps are another color and all similarly folded. She's extraordinarily regimented to her calendar and a very, very presence. She doesn't multitask. When she's doing something, she's doing that, only that, but there's a certain time constraint. And again, it's clear and to the point. You're not going to be diluted down, you're not going to be trying to do multiple things, as you wouldn't speak about multiple things at once. It's linear, it's simple, it's to the point and it's very functional.
Speaker 2:You get in, you do what you need to do and you get out, and then you move to the next one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's a great saying how you do one thing is how you do everything. Yeah, and that's the kind of the point that I was trying to explore, but I was also trying to see how does this benefit you and does it perhaps hold you back in any other areas?
Speaker 2:I do think that it's helpful or beneficial in terms of getting things done. Like I am good and I would say that my friends get benefited of, for example, me planning stuff, like I am the friend that when you have a, when you're traveling, I am the friend that does the itinerary, that knows what we're going to do, where are we going to do it. So, for example, I will plan where I'm staying in terms of what restaurants are nearby or what activities do I want to do, so that we are the most efficient and we don't lose time on commuting from one place to another.
Speaker 1:Brilliant.
Speaker 2:I am that person. I will say that it's beneficial in that sense because I try to just optimize my time, my work, even my free time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:In the best way possible.
Speaker 1:Because time is valuable right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And can you actually sit and watch movies?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:You don't like scream at the director and be like get to the point.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I do have that's like why there was a thought in my mind of that, like maybe she just watches trailers no, and I actually don't like.
Speaker 2:Well, I do like trailers, but I don't like trailers when they're telling me what's happening in the movie. Well, like, like the final thing, that's happened. It's like why do I need to watch the movie anymore? Like the final thing that's happened. It's like why do I need to watch the movie anymore? Like you just told me. Like so, goodbye, no watching this movie yeah, I get that.
Speaker 2:I get that exactly, but for example, I struggle with that on books. I read and I love reading, um, but I struggle with not getting stressed because I don't know what's going to happen and it's like I have to follow the order of the book but I would love to just jump to the end, you know. But yeah, it's something that I practice while I'm reading. It's like you have to read the story. All of the details are important. Just keep on reading. Slowly but surely you've got this it's lovely.
Speaker 1:it's lovely for me to explore that with you, because there's a lot of skills that you would share or you would have right, that I would really envy and that I would love to have in my life to a point.
Speaker 1:But I always think people are the way they are because they've recognized that that's, in a blended fashion, what serves them best. There might be certain areas that don't, but they kind of help prop up other areas that do, and this nice balancing act going on. But I always find that I learn the most from somebody like yourself where there's, let's say, an extremity, like an extremity in terms of clarity and communication, highly organized. I love, like, if we go back to the kind of the what we talked about, this like talking to everybody. When you're talking to everybody, it's very hard to make a point, and when there aren't these, let's say, extremes in terms of a character, it's actually very hard to take learnings. But when I sit in front of you and when I like want the amount of learnings with regards to communication that I've taken from you, I'm like thank you. But exploring the other areas of your life, I'm like ah that's.
Speaker 1:I see how that serves really, really well. Like I recognize with me, I don't take that much time when it comes to like planning where I'm going to stay and I end up in traffic a lot. I end up too far away from the places I want to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Can, can I bring you back, then, to your profession and, like what you've shared in terms of for anyone when it comes to communicating is really really good, like one, make sure you're passionate about whatever it is that you're communicating or speaking about Most important thing Stay in your lane, stay away from the stuff that you aren't Speak to someone directly.
Speaker 1:I love that. Don't be afraid of the consequences of that. Don't be afraid of like one. Don't get too attached to those that like what you're saying. Don't get too attached to people that don't Look to be fair. Just if you are saying something, that's going to happen. If you aren't saying something, if you're kind of talking to everybody, nobody's actually really going to get the opportunity to connect because there's nothing to connect to. I love that. And the third point for some reason, as I'm going point one, point two, I'm actually forgetting, but I'm. I think anyone can rewind back. But I'm curious like a lot of people are really interested in the whole social media sphere and sorry.
Speaker 1:Yes, your third point was really just throw yourself in the deep end and actually just get going. Are there any obvious pointers that you're like Jamie, I'm on your bloody podcast and I didn't get to share this point and this is a really valuable point. Does anything else come?
Speaker 2:up. Yes, and especially coming from a recovering perfectionist there's no such thing as perfection when it comes to social media. And when it comes to the world and when it comes to communication, there's no such thing as perfection. When it comes to social media, and when it comes to the world and when it comes to communication, there's no such thing as perfection, and we are our own worst judges you know, and critiques, and so I find so many people trying to create something and then just not launching it ever, because it's always, it's not perfect, it can be better.
Speaker 2:No, I could have said this better, I could have done better, I could have better, always, always, self-inflicting that and it's.
Speaker 1:There's no perfection yeah there is none I, I, I was kind of reading a good piece on this that was saying, look, if you can just get something to 80%, it's good enough. And focus on good enough rather than perfect. And if you just do good enough, you'll end up putting yourself out there and learning so much faster that you will get to perfect. Yeah, but when you get there, it will actually just be good enough and perfect will have will have evolved on a few more steps that, good enough, is better than 90 of what's out there already so catch yourself, if you're catch yourself, if you're over indulging in perfectionism and actually just go for it absolutely, yeah, I would spend hours.
Speaker 2:Oh, I like to cook like very much. It's a part of my life. If I wouldn't be doing this, I would be a chef for real wow like.
Speaker 2:That's what I the. My other passion is cooking, and I would not invite my friends over to like have dinner or lunch at my place because of my fear of no, this is not, this is not that great and it's. And whenever someone would come and I would have to like I don't know, whip something out of the blue just because they're at my place and it's, I'm also very like. This is how I was raised, like always try to accommodate and be the best host that you can, right, and so it will be like okay, I just made this like really quickly, I'm sorry if it's not good, and everyone would always be like what are you talking about? Like this is amazing. And it's like, oh, okay, maybe I'm kind of acceptable, at least you know, and it's just how everyone is. You're always thinking that, oh, this is not good enough, like no, no, no one is going to like this like. And the truth is how, whatever it looks like right now, it's perfect.
Speaker 1:So watch yourself when you're perhaps overthinking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Watch yourself.
Speaker 1:When you're paralyzing yourself with this kind of want and desire for perfectionism. Give yourself a chance. If something's okay chances are it's actually good enough put it out there. And then, going back to your prior point and putting it out there, you'll learn faster and you'll grow and perhaps commit yourself to the learning journey.
Speaker 2:Okay they're all connected yeah it's like you follow the steps. They all connected all with each other, Any following step missed.
Speaker 1:I kind of take what you're sharing. Don't over-critique yourself. Yes, take the learnings, but don't beat yourself up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and from that you will just keep on growing and growing and growing, yeah, and from that you will just keep on growing and growing and growing. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Whatever it is that you're doing, as long as you're passionate for it, for it, it will just keep getting better and better and you'll just keep getting better at it. Every time is going to feel more comfortable, every time is going to look and feel easier, and it's not that it's easier, it's just that you're getting better. You're putting the practice and you're putting the work in. You know, and if you manage to keep yourself in the lane, focus on that and not trying to just people please everything which, if you ask me, nowadays it's like kind of hard because people just come at you and be like, oh, maybe you should be doing that too, you know, but no, it's focus on what you know, focus, focus on what you love and stay in your lane, put in the work and eventually, yeah, you'll achieve everything.
Speaker 1:I'm kind of getting this picture of like put in the work and eventually you'll achieve everything. I'm kind of getting this picture of like put yourself on a learning journey and a big part of that learning journey is putting yourself out there. So, for example's sake, there is, let's say, the potential hosts. Who puts themselves under such pressure to host spectacularly, doesn't get there, cancels and keeps going through that naturally grows to hate the idea of hosting Because they never got the return of welcoming people in and people going. Oh, this is lovely, regardless of how it actually was, but that energy exchange is key, whereas the person that just actually did something, regardless of how small, and welcomes people in and got that feedback and built a bit of momentum, built a bit of confidence.
Speaker 1:That's the learning journey that allows things to grow and develop and expand yeah where, so many times, when people commit themselves to something, they never give themselves that exposure for the energy to return to them, for the feedback loop to complete and to allow them to go again and go again. Yeah, and they wear on their own energy without getting anything back.
Speaker 2:Yeah and, in that sense, um, I think one essential step or, as a final step, could always be listen to your community, for example, in this case, listen to your friends and the feedback you know, there is so much knowledge on your community.
Speaker 2:So, for example, let's say that you're posting constantly on social media and you get comments and you get DMs from people that are actually resonating with what you're saying. Listen to what they're saying, listen to what they're bringing to the table, because on those comments, on those DMs, in that communication exchange, you find so many things. You find inspiration to keep on like, wow, someone mentioned something that you're like oh, that wasn't like. That didn't come to me as an idea at first, but now that you mentioned it, yes, you're right, that is actually one of the things that I'm passionate about and that I want to talk to. So they're a great source of inspiration for what you're trying to put out there. And then it's just so the feeling of learning from someone that you're actually helping them. You know that they feel that they resonate with your message, that they actually take away what you're trying to offer.
Speaker 1:It's just so fulfilling that it's it's motivation to to keep on going yeah, so what I'm kind of I've kind of got two examples and if we go back to the prior point, it's like the person who is like constantly creating posts but never actually publishing them.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, that person is going to absolutely grow to hate it after a little while. Hate it and then, if they actually ever posted one thing, rather than challenging themselves to figure out what to post, if they posted one thing, rather than challenging themselves to figure out what to post, if they posted one thing and people said, oh, I like this and I don't like this, it helps guide them along in terms of what to post next. Absolutely actually just follow that journey little by little. It will point you in the direction of what's going to resonate most with those that are engaging with you yeah yeah, so actually really listen rather than try to imagine up our creative yeah, you don't have.
Speaker 2:You don't have to have all of the answers you like people think that you need to come up with all of these ideas of what you do, and sometimes all you need to do is listen to your community, listen to what your friends are saying it's funny what you're sharing.
Speaker 1:I'm recognizing that we all put well. Some of us may, and I certainly have put myself under an enormous amount of pressure. Yeah, like it's a lot, lot harder to speak to everybody all at once rather than one particular audience. Yeah, it's very hard speaking into subjects you don't have a clue in yeah and what I love in terms of what you shared and what I'm kind of really really learning is it's okay to say I actually don't have a clue about that space yeah whereas it feels like everybody has to have an opinion on everything right now.
Speaker 2:You don't know so like there's so much power actually in recognizing that.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, you don't have a say in that I'd love if there was like a very famous person being interviewed or something, and they asked them a question and the person said actually you know, that's not my area of expertise, I can't comment on that. Like it's comical now watching the American elections and everybody has to have their own choice. Who are they voting for and why are they voting for them? And there's a lot of people that have no, like I would say, political value. Yeah, and as celebrities, their, their opinion is being broadcast out to the masses and it's like why this person has no weight, no insight, no anything in that sphere. So, yeah, what I kind of feel is that we put ourselves under an enormity of unnecessary pressure, even to the last point that you shared there, of like, if it comes to you putting yourself out there, that you have to imagine up all the subjects, it's like no, actually, if you just put one post out there and then listen to what somebody questions back, anything that becomes your. Your next point to share upon.
Speaker 2:It's just a great source of inspiration. Yeah, listening to what people have to say about what you just posted yeah in those. It's in those conversations that you have through dms, when someone is sharing something that maybe they felt after they watched your video or they read your post.
Speaker 1:It's in those conversations that actual inspiration is yeah, because when you gave your first point of like be passionate about it, really love it yeah I I think about, like your note with regards to hosting, like you can put yourself under crazy pressure in terms to host blissfully, and everything like that, but, ultimately speaking, it's really about the connection between those and your guests. Yeah, enjoying that moment. And I think a lot of us put ourselves under this crazy like when it comes to social media, this crazy pressure of like if I'm going to post, it needs to be perfect and, in actual fact, for whatever it is that you post, it's going to resonate with some people.
Speaker 1:It's not going to resonate with others, but there's a great joy in terms of enjoying that energetic flow yeah and if you can actually just move yourself to a way in which you can enjoy whatever it is you're doing, energy will build. But if you're overthinking it, if you're stressing yourself with the perfectionism, it's going to become really burdensome, to the point that you don't want to do it at all. Yeah, so how can?
Speaker 2:you and everyone gets lost in that yeah, it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you can look at it and go, how am I going to enjoy this? How can I make this a bit of fun? And for some, I completely understand online trolls. They make it so much fun for themselves that of course, they're going to go out and do it because they enjoy the reactions that they're getting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So if you're thinking about putting yourself out there communicating more on social, how can you enjoy it more? Is probably one of the biggest questions you can ask, not like what are all the things you need to be doing, but how can you enjoy this process more? How can it bring energy to you?
Speaker 2:because if it does, then you'll probably want to do more and it'll flow better and I think that my answer is on the first point that I make that it's you need to be passionate about it. If you're talking about something that you're not really passionate about, if you're creating things around something that doesn't really fulfill you, then it it's going to get dirty, it's going to get bad, it's going to get boring to get bad. It's going to get boring. It it's also never going to look or feel the way that you've imagined for it to look because it's not sincere.
Speaker 1:yeah, really goes down to the core part of like spend time figuring out what it is that you love in life and forever, however much time that might take, it, will, ultimately speaking, stand to you in terms of just the energy and charge that comes from that. But don't get lost doing something that doesn't evoke that passion or that energy from you Because unfortunately, speaking over time it will take its toll and pull you down into a bit of a downward spiral.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So there's this exercise that I actually love to tell people to do to like, find that, and it's like make a list of the things that you like and the things that you love, and basically the difference between those two, which tons of people get lost in, is the things that you love are things that you can do every single day and not get tired of them, but there also are things that you like, but could you actually do those things that you like every single day? And that's how you start crossing things out and be like oh no, uh, okay, yes, I can, I I like doing, but no, I can't do this every day. It doesn't drive me to keep on doing and doing every day.
Speaker 1:As you were sharing that, I was like, oh, she's going to say, write down the things that you like and the things that you hate, but in actual fact, that differentiation between what you like and what you absolutely love, it's really powerful. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I can recognize there's few things that I really love, that I can do every day. There is loads of things that I like, loads of things that I think I could do often, but if I burden myself with the thought of doing them every day, I'm like, oh God, I don't really love that. And having a category or having like a note of these are the things that you really love is very helpful, actually when it comes to carving out what's, what am I going to do with myself?
Speaker 2:what is going to stimulate me? Because you're actually getting to understand what are you really passionate about. There is a complete difference in between liking something and loving something you can get like completely.
Speaker 1:You can grow out of that love that you have for a thing that you just simply like yeah you know, it's actually quite interesting that a lot of people are probably boring themselves to death doing things that they like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and not love, and that's what, at the end of the day, make everything, everything what they're doing not enjoyable on the long term.
Speaker 2:Because if you really really don't love it, then no matter how enthusiastic you are about something that you're doing, eventually you're going to get bored yeah, like things that you like can get burnt out quite easily things that you love seem to almost like multiply and compound and then the things that you love, find a way to like, just keep multiplying and bring you more fulfillment, because, because it's it's what you really love, it's what you're really passionate about yeah, it's completely different from just liking it's a really good filter on purpose.
Speaker 1:Like a really good filter on purpose because I think, yeah, in my experience there's loads of things that I've done that I've liked, only to realize that I don't really like that much, but there's very few things that I love, very few things that I can do every day. Yeah. And I noticed that the things that I do love yeah, they expand, Whereas the things that I like contracts.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they always contract, they always have an expiration date to put it somehow. But then the things that you love, love, they just keep on growing and growing and growing andy, lovely finishing point, thank you yeah, I'm happy to share.
Speaker 1:Hopefully it will help someone yeah, do you mind me asking if somebody is trying to reach out or to get in touch with you, what's the best way to do that? Um instagram I would say instagram or, honestly, just sent me a text lovely, and let's connect well, I'm not going to leave your mess your number in the bottom of this podcast. But what?
Speaker 2:I will do. Is you can? You can leave my Instagram handle.
Speaker 1:Yes lovely Andy. Thank you so much for sharing thank you, I've loved it.