The University of Life
The University of Life podcast has become my personal collection of fascinating learnings from the people I meet and experiences I have as I explore life and journey deeper in to the space of business mentoring & life coaching.
The University of Life
The University of Life & Jaro Cabla
It starts with a simple question: “How are you, really?”
What follows is a raw, honest conversation about growth, responsibility, and the quiet cost of success.
Our guest built a massive audience as a travel creator, then pivoted into mentorship, now leading a 20-person team. That shift comes with new weight: guiding people, protecting energy, and keeping your voice intact when others help you speak. We explore the difference between being stretched by meaningful work and being drained by misaligned effort, the kind that burns you out even when the schedule looks “light.”
We talk about mentorship as an accelerator: how paying for guidance can save years of trial and error, and why the most important system to scale is your nervous system. Behind every reel and strategy lies the simple truth, your body has to be able to hold what your vision demands.
The breakthrough comes through presence. Through documenting life instead of performing it. Through small, honest beginnings, like selling everything for a one-way ticket to New Zealand, and waiting eight months before pressing record. Once the first step is taken, momentum, confidence, and community follow.
Midway, we pause for a live heart-check: separating head noise from inner knowing. The clarity that comes is simple, keep sharing, protect health, guard presence. We explore flow state through the everyday, surfing, cooking, sea swims, dancing, the moments that bring the body back online and the mind back home.
We also go deep on creative business: how brand deals built the foundation but limited freedom, and how teaching others can widen your impact while reclaiming your voice.
If you’ve ever wondered how to stay authentic while scaling, how to respond to hundreds of DMs without losing your centre, or how to tell if you’re tired or truly off-track, this episode will meet you right where you are.
Expect honest talk on boundaries, creativity, and community. Expect no slogans, just soul.
If it resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs a nudge toward their next step, and leave a review telling us what you’ll begin, or return to, this week.
If ever you'd like to connect, please don't hesitate to connect via my website www.jamiewhite.com.
I am always open to feedback, reflections, guest / subject recommendations and anything else that might come up.
Thank you for listening, Jamie x
Jaro, welcome to the University of Life. Thank you, Jimmy. What a sensei bow. I love that. Okay, so karate kid, tell me more. Did you do judo?
SPEAKER_01:I did uh take one dough.
SPEAKER_02:Ah, okay. Okay. I'm gonna pull that mic into you so you don't need to.
SPEAKER_01:Should we pull it up to your lovely, lovely? Things are so dynamic.
SPEAKER_02:This is my fancy setup here. Tell me, I I I'm just really curious. How are you? Ah, Jamie.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you for asking that question.
SPEAKER_02:I got this big purr-like smile. I'm like, oof, we open you up.
SPEAKER_01:Uh how am I? How am I?
SPEAKER_03:Hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I would say I'm feeling quite, let's say, stretched at the moment. Yeah, quite stretched.
SPEAKER_02:Sorry, I love this. I'm like, I love the idea of like, I don't do small talk. And so when you ask that question, how are you? And either someone will say, fine, good, or take a moment, pause, and then that's a good question. Jared, we're gonna have a good podcast. Let's get into it, baby. What's what's going on?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you know what? It's been um, I feel very stretched with uh in my personal capacity with what I'm currently doing work-wise, team building-wise. I'm uh I was I was uh I was actually in a in a team call last night with what I uh just shared with you with uh with this uh community that we have. We've been live for three months and we had 20 people inside of this call from having no people on our team to 20 people in one call. And I was just looking at it and I was like, oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02:I was like, this has been a crazy few months. So you you have a team of 20 people working with you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So this is something I'm dying to like I'd love to explore with you because I see the like the cool influencer online living his best life, and it looks like oh, life is so easy, life is so charmed. And then you're like, well, actually, I have a team of 20 people working with me. Like, I wasn't expecting that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I mean, I mean, the the travel content that that you're that you're seeing or that I've been you know creating over the last four or five years, let's say. I was just doing all of that on my own, but now that we're really helping, helping other people and doing more like community work, coaching work, it takes a far bigger, bigger team to help.
SPEAKER_02:And a far bigger energetic capacity, I imagine. Because it's not just you living your best life, it's you actually taking responsibility for others to helpfully follow in your footsteps and perhaps coming to you with that expectation that they will be if they engage with you, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yes. That was a good yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I would say like it's um for sure, yeah. An energetic capacity in a sense of like I'm currently responsible to help other people win as well, you know, like people people trust us to like come to us to like mentor them and coach them in what they're doing. So it's like it's it's a lot being like because I care, yeah, right. I I really I really care, but I've never been stretched.
SPEAKER_02:And maybe stretched. I and comfortable. I am no, I I always think people there's sometimes people will question mentoring fees, right? They're like, you want me to pay how much for a course? And it's like, wait a second. Not only are you getting to literally piggyback off my five or my 10 years of experience, but in actual fact, I am also like I'm leaning in, I'm giving you my care for your progression. I I when I cut onto this, like of what mentoring really is, it became the biggest no-brainer. Like, why would you learn something in theory when now what you can actually do is you can find somebody who's doing exactly what you want to do, and chances are they're sharing an apprenticeship program or something like that. And it's like brilliant, fast track to the exact kind of life and lifestyle I want with QA's with the very person who's living it. Ugh, dream. Yeah. But a lot to put out there. So say that again. But a lot to be putting out there on your side.
SPEAKER_01:One more time.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, is this my Irish accent? I think it's the No, I was saying it's it's it's actually, I feel like it's the biggest no-brainer for a consumer to do this. But at the same time, on the other side, what I don't think people appreciate enough is that it's actually a huge response of like weight and responsibility for somebody like yourself.
SPEAKER_01:For sure. Yeah, it'd be a it'd be a big responsibility for people that really care. That really care, right? With with mentorship programs, let's say. There can be there can be a few online that are quite hit or hit or miss.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right. But it to enter a community that has a lot of heart in in that mentorship space and you know that that you invest in, you're essentially, you know, if it was three, four, five K, you know, whatever the cost of a mentorship program is, you're just buying back your time, right? Like you say, like you're just you're just paying to save your time. Do you want to spend the next two years of your life doing something by yourself? Our fast market. Do you want to put yourself in a like, I don't know, a three-month thing and burn everything really quickly?
SPEAKER_02:I love that idea, the standing on the shoulders of giants, but it's cool, it's really cool. Um can I ask what does uh what does stretched look like to you? Because like me, I have I have burnt myself out so many bloody times, and I I'm I like I'm really holistically minded now because I think I had to be. I kept making myself sick, I kept having panic attacks in the most challenging of places, and I'm curious, like when I yeah, when I tune into yourself, what does stretched look like for you?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's uh that's actually I mean, that's such a good, good question, right? I would say that you know, you're talking about burnout, and that's such a common word that comes up for creative people and entrepreneurs and and uh you know people of that nature.
SPEAKER_02:You I love that it's you actually struggling to say, like, because you are a creator, yeah, an entrepreneur, yeah, yeah. Like you've got four million followers.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, it was that um, yeah, but I mean, so I was I was just to hold on, sorry, to answer to say to answer to that question that you were saying, I I would say that I had a really big burnout three years ago, okay, where I was doing things that weren't aligned or cohesive with the way that I really wanted to be living my life, right? So that and the difference between being stretched, if if I'm talking about being stretched, my capacity is being stretched. I'm actually I'm not coming close to burnout because I'm I'm just being stretched. I actually wake up every morning and I really enjoy what I'm doing. I know I'm exactly in the right place doing what it is that I need to be doing. That's rather than that's really it of burnout, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so sorry, that's that that's triggering up loads of thoughts for me because I can remember like it's so funny, God. I I I took I took school's rugby very, very seriously when I was in school. And my God, did we train? Like we just trained and trained and trained and trained. And that actually was stretched because I loved doing that. And I'd say, like, if I look back at all the times of my life, that was probably one of the times I really worked my heart hardest. But it was good work. And I actually I woke up, although I was bruised and battered most days when I was waking up. I I had this charge, I wanted to do more. There was a passion running through me. When you shared that, what came up for me was this time when I had been very entrepreneurial doing my own thing, but at a at a stage I I set up an agency, which is essentially servicing other people's businesses, and it didn't, it didn't feel good for me. And I remember that was hard. Like that was a time I was doing that work and we were committed to doing more of it, and I struggled to get out of bed. And I really struggled to do the work, and the work was all the harder as a result. That was burnout, yeah, very good. Like I I haven't quite thought enough about the the difference in being stretched doing something you love and feeling all the more pulled to do more of it, versus actually almost doing very little, but in a space that's just not lighting you up and it becoming harder and harder and harder to do to the point that it grinds you to a halt.
SPEAKER_01:There's yeah, there's some there's something about that, isn't it, where you're just constantly giving from this empty cup of like you doing something that you're just not excited about by by any means at all. I I love it what you're saying about um about you know being stretched, like really at that point you just needed a weekend and yeah, yeah, hung out with some hang out with some friends and go to a couple of yoga classes or it's yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I come back to so so so so sorry, let me tune in because it's very easy to kind of get a different assumption of you because you project you know you have a life online that people can follow. But like for you, when if I was to ask you what does excite you, what do you love? My presumption is there's the obvious of like Jamie, I love traveling. I love living my best life. Have you followed me? But like actually, if you scratch beneath the surface, what what does really light you up?
SPEAKER_01:Wow. Such a good question. What does really light me up? Traveling would really be it would be really the short answer for a much deeper answer that I'm wanting that I'm wanting to give to what it is that lights me up. I would say that what lights me up the most is just being free in a sense of like being myself in every single moment, being like my full self in every moment, my full free self, what lights me up the most, and just you know, living in a moment without feeling like I held back.
SPEAKER_02:That again, I love that somebody gives an answer, and it's it feels I feel like you're almost catching me here, but like when you share that, I spent the first 30 years of my life living in Ireland. I was immersed in Ireland. I was like, I you know, I had I had my circle, I had my the all the things that I do, and I had, let's say, that almost that what one could call a prison of familiarity and expectation. You know, people knew me, they had an idea of me, all of that. I kind of find sometimes we can find ourselves living to expectations of others, living to our environment, living to the norms. I remember traveling at first and just going to a place where no one knew me and immediately speaking feeling a freedom that I haven't. And it wasn't the freedom of like, oh, I'm jumping off a plane or I'm swimming in like a vast ocean or something. It was actually just like somebody looking at me and being like, Who are you?
SPEAKER_03:Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, great. I don't I don't have any reputation here. I am a blank canvas, I can be whatever I want. And I remember having so much fun being like, Oh, I'm actually an astronaut. I'm just taking six months off. I had so much fun playing these roles and playing with the freedom of nobody having an absolute clue who I was. Lovely. And that's actually what freedom that what travel gave me in my first few months of it. And I loved it. A freedom that I hadn't felt before to just play with whoever it is that I was, and I could be a different person in every conversation.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's such a crazy connection that you uh that that you just made as as well. It's I I think not a lot of or or like I I'm just having that that connection game like with with what I'm sharing with you, you know, because what what you said was was like what is it, what is it that lights you up the most, just being my myself in every moment, and like waking up every single morning having the the the pressure of I don't know, let's say normal people and uh with who who wake up surrounded by the same people every single day, the same environment, the same things, the same job. There's that what is it? That that pull to to keep up an appearance, to cut yeah, keep up an appearance. Um, so it's it's really cool that you say that because travel in itself, and I think that's why I've really fallen in love with it, and you just made that it feels like you just made that connection for me, is that you have the ability to then go and recreate yourself every single day if you wake up in a new place every single day.
SPEAKER_02:Definitely this, like I talked about, oh, I played with a different character every six months because like Jamie, who do you want to be? Well, you know, yeah, and it it um I think that's something that oftentimes like being in the one place for so long, um, it does solidify a character. Uh, but that that character might be out of date at a certain point, and it can become very, very hard to stray, very hard to to yeah, to to to express different parts of you. And so yeah, I I fell in love with this. Like one day I am a fireman, and then the next day, oh I I'm I'm actually an acriamarine specialist. I've been diving, I'm just taking a break. But it was it was it was a lot of fun, and I I but I noticed suddenly I I became much lighter, much more playful. My conversations became much much lighter, more playful, and fun, and like a lot of fun started showing up in my days as a result, and um and it's today, dreaming is a podcast host, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:But it uh is god, I like loads of fun stories. Um but yeah, I suppose it's a different um it's a different freedom when you're perhaps like because again, I think a lot of time when people think travel influences, they just think like wide expanses, beautiful, beautiful views, and crazy, fast-paced, uh, heart-pumping experiences. And in actual fact, it could be just the simplicity of having an uh a com a conversation with somebody you've never met before. Yes, uh, but that's me putting words in your mouth.
SPEAKER_01:That yeah I uh you're you're you're putting the right words in in my mouth. Oh, lovely.
SPEAKER_02:How do they taste?
SPEAKER_01:Delicious they're pretty good, actually.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I uh so you're actually feeling a really nice response weight and responsibility then as you're you lived this life, you loved it, you got so much from it, and now essentially there's a give back, and there's a give back that makes a great business, but the give back is I'm helping a whole new generation follow my footsteps. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I'd say you probably got just so sick of DMs being like, how do I do what you do? It's like please just just all go there.
SPEAKER_01:I've I've got I've got three people in my Instagram account that are just like messaging everybody.
SPEAKER_02:That's like because I can't, I I I sometimes people can look up and be like, Oh, I'd love to have four million followers, but like I was like, I I can't.
SPEAKER_01:No, it's no it's uh it's it's it's so yes, there's so there is a big responsibility there, and people are constantly messaging you for for help and for advice, and you just you you really want to help these people because yeah, I I I feel a bit guilty if I go to sleep and I haven't returned all my WhatsApps.
SPEAKER_02:Like I look at that and it has to be a zero. What's it like when it's like a thousand?
SPEAKER_01:The people hardly get the WhatsApp, but but no, but like in the Instagram DMs or something. Um I mean at the moment I wouldn't I wouldn't say it's like un unbearable with with the team and with the with the help that I have in responding to other people.
SPEAKER_02:Sorry, you've got 20 people working with you. So in actual fact, hopefully there's no messages. 20 jars here, yeah. But even that, like you're giving responsibility over so over to somebody to almost speak your voice, your tone.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Exactly. That's a that's that's a that can be a very touchy role, let's say.
SPEAKER_02:There should have been a full stop and a comma.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we need 10 explanation marks and a huge smiley face and a lot of hearts.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, gosh.
SPEAKER_02:No, I I uh I I I actually just love explor exploring that and going into that with you because I I had a a post that got a lot of attention a few months ago, and it was like, oh my god, it's so cool for that post to get a lot of attention. But then I opened my phone and it's like you have 300 DMs. And I actually like I got so overwhelmed, and and the overwhelm didn't just affect, let's say, um Instagram or whatever, it actually affected everything, like it affected me checking in with friends, checking in with family. I just I got so overwhelmed by the amount of messages in that regard that I suddenly found it really hard to come back to anyone, and it it threw me all over the place. And I wasn't expecting like a lot of calming and nervous system. That's my work, but it's amazing just seeing the the impact of that. Now, I kind of one by one went through every reply, and as I did, I started to kind of get myself back a little bit until they all replied again. But it but it it is it is uh yeah, it's it's a it's a hard one to manage, and so okay, I hear from you then you bring people in to support you in that process because you want to keep up appearances, but then you want to make sure they're keeping up appearances in a way that's true to form. Um, so there must be like as you grow, let's say, like in following and engagement and in bit and in business, because now obviously you're working with others, it's quite an interesting journey in terms of building, let's say, your stress capacity and your nervous system to uh up level in that regard. I kind of think that idea of like, oh, I'd love to be in that person's life, uh, shoes in a second. No, you actually wouldn't walk for a while. It takes quite a while, I imagine, to rev up to where you're at. Like, would you look at yourself, say five years ago and be like, oh, he could step into this right away? Probably not.
SPEAKER_01:You mean if I were five years ago, if I were to look at like myself right now?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Like what what would I say about it?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, like as in like five years ago right now, I'd say your nervous system was completely different, your stress capacity was completely different. That an actual fact to look at where you are right now would be probably quite scary and intimidating.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. If it was yeah, scary and intimidating for sure. Five years ago, you know, it it took me, for example, it took me, I was so comfortable. I was so comfortable, it took me, you know, after I really wanted to create travel content, and I actually booked a one-way, one-way ticket to uh New Zealand, sold all of my things back at home, and when I got to New Zealand, I basically went out on this trip just with the goal of creating content. Fast forward eight months in the trip, and I still haven't taken my first video because I was too scared to move past that bit of discomfort.
SPEAKER_02:So were you still in New Zealand? Hmm? Were you still in New Zealand?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, when I shot my first uh my first video.
SPEAKER_02:So you sold all your stuff and just decided I'm going all in, got on a one-way flight to New Zealand, and then when it came to it, you're like, well, I'll maybe do it next week, and next week and next week became eight months.
SPEAKER_01:Became not yeah, exactly. And when I when I think you know, when I think back back on that process, because we're yeah, what is that that capacity for for grow for growth? Like what sort of movies like I I think about that now and those like uncomfortable decisions that I make to stretch my capacity are just so much bigger in a in a in a sense. You know, back in the day when you think about like filming your first video, it's it wasn't really that crazy, but it took me so long to cut go out of my comfort comfort zone and do that initially.
SPEAKER_02:It's a really interesting uh contrast, let's say, between like one's dreams, one's aspirations, one's like ambitions for themselves of like I'm gonna do this. And it's so easy. Like I've had these nights where I stay up late at night and I'm like jotting down a whole masterpiece of a business plan, but then when you wake up the next day and it's like, all right, let's go do it, it's a whole other like world of challenges. Um and yeah, it's it's very easy to plot out like I'm gonna take this shot and I'm gonna do this, and then I'm gonna publish it. It is a whole other thing to hold up the camera and click record and to start putting you through that process. And it starts to bring up all the like all the personal complexes as well. Like it's a I imagine the whole journey is an enormous roller coaster of mental health and emotional balance.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um it's been crazy. It's been it's been the craziest over the last few months. You know, even even with uh creating travel content, it there were there was a pretty natural progression there of and I got to a point where I was just I was just very comfortable in what I was doing as well. With the people that I was connecting with in person, with the with the videos that I'd create, with how comfortable I felt filming myself out in public with just the whole thing.
SPEAKER_02:I I love that though. Like from eight months of like difficulty to now now you probably don't even think about that stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, yeah, no. I mean, I mean, you know, like for example, you and me ran into each other before we came on here together. Yeah. And I just put my phone out and I just started taking videos of Jamie.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Three years ago, that would have scared the shit out of me. Right. Just going up to somebody I've met once before and just taking some videos of you, for example. But now you know, there was a especially as as a as a creator. One of the biggest feel free to share your perspective with me on this because I think it's I think it's so one I think it's so cool. The the one of the biggest mindset shifts that I've had as a creator up until this point was when I heard it was Gary uh Gary Vaynerchuk, um his mindset shift when when he when he mentioned to document, not to create. Right? And so I think you know, as we're as we're talking a bit about uh mental health and things like that, um, just having a a creative journey and and documenting it rather than creating something that isn't exactly real, but just documenting your life feels like it uh that was uh a really big point of growth for myself uh several months, uh several years ago.
SPEAKER_02:Like yeah, this is this is this chat, it's actually hilarious. It's a really ex interesting example of that. Like sometimes sometimes I sit down and the conversations are almost pre-rehearsed. And there's this like and and to be honest, there can be quite a lovely flow to it, and one com one line bounces off the next. There's a particular thing I'd notice about yourself is that there's no performance. It's actually very real, and there's struggles on some questions, and there's pauses, and there's and there's all sorts going going on that most people don't let in. So it's interesting hearing you share that that it's like, oh yeah, Jamie, I'm not really performing when I'm sharing content, I'm actually just letting people in. And as I've come to do that more and more, I've built a capacity to let people in all the more. Um but we're so tuned to watching polished movies and polished interviews and polished bullshit in a lot of the regards, where people are promoting themselves. When we're met with what real is, I would say this is real. I would say this feels really real. Real to the point of it's almost a little bit awkward. Like I'm scratching my nails a little bit. I'm like, Yeah. And and I think it's because real is scary. Like, because when somebody starts actually taking the veil off and letting you in, there's an immediate, oh, I'm in the same room as this person. I actually I can't do the bullshitty shit either. I have to, I I I I don't have to, but I want to. There's a pull, and that I think brings up a lot of nerves. Um so yeah, I I I love the like I there's a part of social media I love. Social media gets a real bad um slant a lot of the time. It's like, oh, it's corrupting young people, it's hijacking people, and and you know, it's turning people into dancing idiots half the time. But on the other side, it's actually huge in helping people be all the more true and authentic to themselves, helping people see that they're not as weird as they think they are. There's actually a whole load of weirdos out there, yeah. And um, and I think like there's a there's a lot of uh talk about how powerful authenticity is and how you know we all know that love is a high frequency, but people really didn't appreciate how much higher a frequency authenticity is, and that shines on social as well. And I think when you see authenticity versus performance, it performance is repulsive, and authenticity is like wow, but it's it's still new, and I I think it's still new, I think it's very special, and it's very it's sometimes a little bit hard to recognize.
SPEAKER_01:Um I love it that you say that. Yeah, yeah, how does that feel authenticity? I think it's hard hard to come by. It's hard to come by on on social media. So I mean, you know, for example, like when you got those, when you had 300 people go into your messages and they were saying a bunch of stuff towards a video that performed quite well. I'm gonna assume it was a good idea. They were probably saying pretty they were probably saying pretty nice, pretty nice things about the video.
SPEAKER_02:It was very big for me, Charlie.
SPEAKER_01:I'm just I'm saying like they were saying nice things about the about the video, right? It has this way of just like really, really impacting other people's lives, like literally changing people's lives. Like that was just the one one post, but you but it feels that it needs to come out of that that real and authentic place in order to have that energy carry to somebody somebody else, right? So once you get all the other things mixed into it, the marketing, the you know, everything everything else on on top of your brand, sometimes it can it can really lose that that sense of authenticity, that message. Like what is it what is it, what is what is really that message that you're sharing with people?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And that rawness on social media, yeah. Yeah. I I had a bit of an odd journey years ago where I remember feel I remember like perhaps I was very popular, but I felt really lonely. And I I I put it down to a lot of this, that I was playing a character a lot of the time, and that character was pretty popular, but like the love uh wasn't leaking through to me because it was like essentially it was like a shield. You love my shields, but I'm actually left empty in the background because I wasn't sharing myself, and like getting to this point, like getting to this point where I could be real in whatever way that shows up. It's like, how are you actually awful today? That's you know, that's real, but we're definitely not taught to be like, hey, actually awful today. But when somebody says, Oh, you're awful, you know, they're actually connecting with you at that point, and that there's an opportunity for relating. But if you're like, oh, I'm fine, I'm great, you're shielding yourself away from love that's there, from presence that's there, from connection that's there. So I I had this yeah, weird experience of very much playing a character, I would think, and it was so well played that I didn't even know I was. It was a whole lot of unpacking. Um, the motivation was a loneliness that was feeling under that I couldn't understand. As I started to go on the journey, it started to make a whole Load of sense. And then it became this like push of like, well, be more true to yourself. The only thing is that I didn't really know who I was underneath it all because there'd been so little time exercising that person. I've been spending all my time pretending I'm somebody else. Hence the journey that I talk to you of like traveling and been like playing out these different little parts of me was such a beautiful kind of healing journey and fun journey at the same same time to find myself again, which is such an odd thing. If like, you know, what was it, 31, 32? Wow. To come to that.
SPEAKER_01:Who is Jamie?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Really?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. But it fe it feels like actually perhaps like I I always love like if I was I was an observer when I was younger. I used to love looking at like, why is the popular kid the popular kid? Why's the loser the loser? And with you, I'm I'm I'm looking on and I'm like, ah, this man's been practicing letting people in authentically. It kind of makes a hell of a lot of sense why the following develops, or why do you think you have the following that you do?
SPEAKER_01:Why do I think I have the following that I do?
SPEAKER_02:We retorted that back clear. I was like, oh god, was that an awful question to ask?
SPEAKER_01:Um no, I think you're the these questions are are pretty good. They can uh why do I think I have the following that I do?
SPEAKER_02:Because I had that assumption. It was like, oh, he's letting people in. He's honest, he's true. Would that be true?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean that that I mean that is like that is like one thing. Right? For a lot for a lot of for a lot of people that I mean, they're always like oh, I love your energy. I I love your energy energy so much, it's so contagious, it's such a such a high uh vibe, it's so excited. I love being around it. I think that that sense that like charisma is like one one thing. I think maybe people feel attracted to charisma. That's but at the same yeah, at the same time, I'm not always always like like that. Sometimes you know, filming a voiceover, and and for example, like I'm I'm not gonna you know film my voiceover the way that I'm speaking right now. I'm just like screaming into my phone filming a voiceover. Um so it's this like heightened version of of of my myself and this like excitement that I bring to life. I mean there's there's that there's that energetic side of it, and and then there's this the side that like you know social media is not very that complicated. The more you feed the beast, the more the more your you know accounts and things will grow. But there's then there's also like the community building aspect of things, which I really want to work uh a bit more on, you know, in uh having the ability to to then be able to impact more people's lives, which is really important for for myself for myself. But I would say like following overall was that cur the charisma, yeah. And then really like the the strategy side of of things as well.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so it's nothing to do with blue eyes, blonde hair.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's lion hair, blue eyes, and yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_02:So there's a letting people in, but then there's actually a real like, no, there's a huge strategy here as well, Jamie. I took this seriously, it's my career. I really worked hard, and and then you know, there's a community building, there's an authentically coming back, like again, as much as I was there saying I'm stressing over coming back to the 300 people, you built up to the point that you've actually hired three people to work with you, taking, let's say, amongst other things, those boxes as well, because you take your following seriously, you want to care for it, and and that's actually developed all the more now to the point that you're like, actually, do you know what so many people are aspiring to this life that I'm sharing? I'm actually going to share the lessons I've learned too. Okay. Yes. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. You know, the the social media space, it depends on who you are, as well. Like, you could you could definitely do something like this a little bit more casually, right? And still make, let's say, like a full-time career out of social media. But if you want to turn it into something a lot bigger, you need those systems, you need that strategy, you need uh a team.
SPEAKER_02:Sorry, I'm like praying like a cat now as I'm looking at you because I'm like, interesting. What is the ambition then? Because that like you know what I'm hearing there is like, yeah, you know, if you want to settle, you can get by. So what's on the other side? What's the like the big desire, the dream?
SPEAKER_01:Oh I was really excited to actually to to really share that as well. I would say, I would say my my biggest dream, you know, in in I know how much freedom I've I've also been able to experience over the last few years of being able to share a message with the world, being being able to travel around the world and to get paid for that as well as connecting with cultures from all over the world. I know how much freedom that that gave to my life. Um and that's what I was passionate about. But you know, as I as I continued my journey, and let's say like my personal journey, I was like, you know, if I had if I had one message to share with the the world, what would that like one message be in the the one message that I that I wanted to share with people was to do what you're passionate about, because passionate people will save the world. I feel that if we all wake up in the morning and we're just doing what it is that excites us the most, that the world would be a far more beautiful and vibrant place. So the so I you know if I'm tying that back into like the mission right now is to be able to share that message with with more people to impact impact people's lives to to get them to you know push themselves just a just a bit outside of that comfort zone and and taking baby steps towards whatever that dream is that they want to share. So I would I would say that a lot of my the way that I spend my time is in support of that message and that mission.
SPEAKER_02:That's what lights you up. That yeah, that idea of like you've lived life true to yourself, you've lived life true to your passions. A career came in behind it where brands were like, oh, we want to back this traveling, you make it look so cool, we want to be on board here. That lit you up all the more, that encouraged your freedom to the point then that others were following on aspirationally, being like, oh my god, I want to do that. And you're like, well, you can. And it fills your heart essentially when you're helping people realize, oh my god, they can too. And that has a kind of a compounding effect where you're like, Well, I've done one person, I want to do 10, I want to do 10 people, I want to do 100, 100, 1000. There's just such a buzz of helping people realize that they can live life more on their terms.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, making making that shift from I'm sure that you've you've experienced that big yeah, big, big time, making that shift from from me to we and one and wanting to help other people, not just like I don't, but I I also don't want people to walk the exact same path that I walked. I just like I just want you to wake up in the morning and to honestly feel excited for the way that you are choosing to live your life. And do you wake up feeling excited? Yeah, I would say I would wake up feeling excited, sometimes like a little overwhelmed, sometimes a little all over the place.
SPEAKER_02:But uh no, it's a good litmus test. Because you imagine if after all of that, you're like, actually, actually, I like I I hate my life. It's got comical, but sometimes it happens. Like, I I remember God with an old hat on. I talked about running a social media agency, and we I are we the business, we did social media for a lot of public motivational speakers. I remember like we were helping them with their online strategy and everything like that. And some of the ones that were like the top, like go-getters, were actually very unmotivated behind it all. It was like, could you please just give us the content? They were like, we need another week. So it was a funny one that sometimes you know, people that are in the public eye promoting a certain value, they're promoting it not necessarily because they absolutely totally embody it, but because they've struggled with that so much and they know the value of navigating away from that. Um and like and yeah, it it's a it's a kind of an interesting contrast, the idea of like take advice from those that you know you really aspire to. Sometimes actually, the best advice will come from the very people that are challenged the most in those areas. Um, but uh now that's like ticking a bit of curiosity in me, and I'm saying seeing a guy who's like very passionate, sorry, very want wanting to live a life of passion and freedom. Does that come from a root of like being trapped before?
SPEAKER_03:Hmm.
SPEAKER_01:So when I was 12 years old, I remember I I I grew up in Hawaii, right? So I I remember wait waking, yeah, waking up in the morning and I started seeing like you know these photos popping up. I think it was on Instagram or some somewhere else somewhere else 15 years ago now. These beautiful, beautiful wave photos. It was uh a bunch of surf photography photos, and it and there was um this artist that I started following, and I really fell in love with his work. And I was like, wow, this is incredible. I I just I love how creative you are. And then and after after a while, I picked up my own camera. I picked up with just a little GoPro, and I would uh wake up for sunrise every single morning, I would go and jump in the ocean before school, and I'd film these photos and and these videos with my my camera, and there was just something about coming home and looking at this art that I created, right? Um and as time continued to go on, you know, I I I also came from a family that was real big on business. Dad's a business owner, mom's a business owner, and they also really supported my entrepreneurial journey. But like time, time went on, and I more so I more so just didn't I didn't I didn't really see I didn't really see to be honest, like hope and being able to fund my life through that creative work that I was doing as a little kid. But it was it was something that I was really, really excited about doing at the same time. Fast forward uh you know to like the uh end of high school, and I guess the the part that I felt trapped with the most, you know, with and going back to your question was feeling like I could never make uh a career out of out of that passion. And so I actually quit. I quit. I did the old thing. I started, you know, I graduated high school, started going to university, ended up dropping out of university, and it just it's it's felt like this tug and pull my entire life between being able to get paid for what I was passionate about and and doing something that was a little more realistic. Right, and so and being able to do that now, I'm like fuck, like like everyone should uh have the opportunity to go for it in some sort of way.
SPEAKER_02:When you're sharing that, I'm like I'm kind of thinking to myself, when did it ever become acceptable to shit on people's dreams? Like, you know, think of you as that like that high school kid who's like just getting really fulfilled, getting up early with his GoPro, and it's like I want to take videos of the waves, and whoever's like, yeah, Jared, unfortunately, you're not gonna create a career out of that. And it it's like, who gets off on that? Like, who gets off yeah, on on crushing people's dreams and funneling them towards roles that just aren't for them? It's such an odd thing to be like, oh, but let's be realistic. You know, that's not the way the world works. And it's I actually love that your proof of putting up like, well, you can actually make the world work the way you want it. And you're going back actually, like I now understand, ah, okay, I see his conviction. He's actually going back to his high school self and saying, hey, perhaps don't give up the passion. Actually, if you do this, here's the cheat code. And you talked about it, like a you know, a mentorship program. The cool thing about it is you can spend four, five, six years studying uh a path in college or are fumbling around yourself, or you can just piggyback and learn in three, four months what you would otherwise perhaps learn in four or five years. It's great. Yeah, um, but I get the conviction now you're going back essentially to your younger self. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I love that. I remember one of my most successful times when I was I was running nightclubs all around all around Ireland, the UK, and it was fantastic. And I remember um I was met by an auntie who was like, Yeah, but Jamie, when are you gonna do like when are you gonna do something real? Like, when are you gonna get a real job? And I I wish I had the balls to say to her, I'm actually earning more in a week than you probably are in a year at this. And I hate that, like, uh, but that's my younger self being like, Fuck you, you shamed me for what I was doing at that time. And you you you set off a whole chain reaction of internal kind of thoughts that led me to do something that I really shouldn't have done. Like it kind of had me deprioritize that work that was doing so well and prioritize work that was really never meant for me. Yes, and and I think like I'm I hate I suppose being as as open with how impressionable I am, but the fact is we're all really impressionable at a young age, and we build that thick skin most of the time through ill experiences of being impressionable. Like, so now when somebody says that, I'm like, excuse me, did I ask for your advice?
SPEAKER_00:Sorry, bitch.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but too important, because I don't I yeah, I don't think people realize how impressionable and how damaging those words can be. And like to to can you imagine how horrible it would be to be like, yeah, I crushed somebody's dreams.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, like when you're getting to know yourself at the at the same time, right? During during that stage where you're so trying to figure out who you are. Now you know who you are. So you're like, you know, you're like, sorry, I actually know I'm doing a great job. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02:Again, hands up though, that I I actually said that earlier on in this conversation of like, hey, it's oh it's a very I the amount of shame I felt aged 31, 32, or whatever it was, being like, I'm lonely because I don't have the confidence to be myself. I have taken comfort in being presenting myself as somebody else. That somebody else is popular, but unfortunately, I don't feel any of the warmth, the love, the connection that comes from that. That whole pursuit, that building up of that avenue, that's redundant. Actually, in fact, it's coming at my expense all the more. 31 like 30, 31, 32. I need to go out and figure out who the fuck I am. And like that, that's bonkers. But yeah, that comes probably from a whole load of stuff on my side and a whole load of perhaps like conversations that people thought nothing of, but they all let's say contributed to it and something.
SPEAKER_01:I'm actually I'm actually real curious, Jamie. Like, would you would you say that, you know, because you know, for for for anyone, let's say for for anyone listening that kind of had a harder time of understanding who they who they were, what it is that gets them the most excited in life, let's say or just who they are. Do you do you have any do you have any piece of uh advice for people wanting to uncover a bit of that? I'm the host now.
SPEAKER_02:I'm gonna sit up a little bit differently, I'll part my hair. Yeah, like I think like I think it's a very funny line when somebody you know says, Oh, have no regrets. Look back on your life and have no regrets, and that's kind of challenging. But the fact the fact is, like all the weird curvatures of life and the highs and lows bring you to where you are. So I'm a coach that helps people really tap into their essence and and make that whole process simple and then complement them from there and help them get their lives aligned, help them feel authentic, help them realize true authentic confidence. And generally, when you're in that space, God, life just opens up. Uh, would I be able to do that if I didn't perhaps go on a bit of a circuitous journey myself? No. Um and so you know, the frustration I was met with at that point of realization took me off on a fantastic journey as a result, and that has led to, let's say, a depth of wisdom for where I'm at. The only thing I'd I perhaps would wish I would have done differently is not shamed myself so much in the process, not being so upset, so like, oh my God, I'm 30 and this is happening now. And I I think that's the the real weight of advice or encouragement that I would give to anybody who is having, let's say, a quarter life crisis or a clash of confidence or a feeling of like, oh, I've just wasted so many years, whether it's in a wrong relationship or a wrong job or something like that. It's like have a bit of faith. Don't think you're so smart that you can see this in its totality. Um oftentimes there's a toss and a turn just beyond the horizon, just beyond what you can see that actually makes everything make sense. And I think that's a big thing that a lot of us suffer from is we see a moment in its moment and think that's it and hammer ourselves as a result, not realizing that things are about to come full circle and everything will make sense in the end. There's a lot of stuff that only over the last year or two is starting to make sense for me. And I like I went through a hell of a broken heart period, which is like that, you know, that's a lot. And at that, at those times, you're like, oh, my life is over. But in actual fact, like, wow, I do feel there's a great line like from breakup to breakthrough. Like those processes are actually enormous cleansing processes and break big journeys home to self-love, which builds self-respect, which actually kind of nurtures a sense of self-care, self-discipline, and then self-realization. So, in all these situations of let's say realizing um things aren't as I thought as they as you thought they were, my advice to myself and to anybody similar is actually just trust, take the pressure off your shoulders, keep flowing with with what whichever way the kind of the wisdom is going and uh and open yourself up to be pleasantly surprised. Uh yeah, that that that that's what comes up for me. Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Love that. So simple.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but but but I think that's probably the whole thing is that we think we need to be doing so much in our lives. Yeah. When in actual fact, if we just trust it, yeah, like if we let go of the steering wheel, yeah, I kind of think like we're live, a lot of us are living our lives with our hands so tightly gripped on the steering wheel, being like, no, no, no, no, I'm navigating. And it's like you're not. The boat is actually floating above the water, it's in a current, just trust the current.
SPEAKER_01:Hmm. I'm just thinking that I'm I'm you know, I'm thinking that like people would have a hard time kind of understanding which current they should be flowing down. Should they be going down that current or should they be going down this current?
SPEAKER_02:Or well, look, let's look at you. You were passionate enough about what you were doing so much about what you were doing that you were getting up early before school. You were out with your GoPro, filling the waves, and for whatever, you know, somebody led you astray thinking, Gerald, that's not good, you're not gonna build a career out of that. Um, and and so you got, let's say, distracted off that current, perhaps, right? And the idea is, well, actually, if you just follow what you love and do what you love, uh, that was taking you somewhere. And you you went off path for a little while and went, you know, did a few other things, but something was nagling at you and pulled you back in. And I I think that's life. That like there is a I think there is actually an easy path for all of us. Yeah, and again, it's true to what you're sharing of like follow your passion. I think life gets really, really hard when we start doing the things we think we need to do.
SPEAKER_01:That we think we that we think we need to do rather than just fucking going.
SPEAKER_02:Or that are impressed upon us, right? Like, you need to get a real job. Suddenly, the real job is hell, and the job you were doing before was easy as pie. So I think most of this pain and the suffering and the challenge that we experience in our life, unfortunately, is self-induced. And if we only just trusted the process, followed our hearts that little bit more, life would fall into a much nicer alignment. And the fact is, you are in authenticity in that space, you are being true to yourself. Everything else can start to mirror that. I'm a big believer in the idea of karma, but not as the idea of that like the world will punish you or bad. It's like if you are bad. No, karma is like this beautiful law of mirroring, where for however you show up in the world, the world will reflect that back to you. And yes, and if you are presenting yourself as somebody different to who it who it is that you are, the world is going to start presenting back some pretty random shit. But if you just start being more true to yourself, the world will reflect back those truths to you, and there's a lovely compounding effect from that. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01:I feel that, yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_02:Did I just successfully rewrite the idea of karma?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. And I like what I'm thinking right now is that like when you're living out of uh you know alignment with what it is that you really want, the outer reflection just gets stronger and stronger and stronger, and that voice inside of you gets louder and louder, which is wanting to pull you into that true path. Right? Is it does that make sense?
SPEAKER_02:This makes complete sense. And sometimes I find an idea in in let's say a theory that we're not too braced with can be a bit random, but let's make it practical. If you start eating a cleaner diet, naturally your body starts speaking to you in terms of what it likes and what it doesn't like. Now, there's a bit of trickery there of temptation, and if you eat something that perhaps you think you like, but in actual fact it's not good for you, you'll know all the more. Like the cleaner you eat, the more sensitive your diet becomes. The more sensitive your diet becomes, the more unfortunately, if you eat out of sync with your diet, you'll know. Right? Yes. It's the exact same in life. That the more you start living true to yourself, the more you feel what's true to you. But unfortunately, if you do something that's out of sync with that, you'll feel it all the more. Whereas on the other side, if you have no consciousness around your diet, right? You just eat whatever the fuck you want, you get numbed. Right? You actually don't really know what's good for you and not. You just eat unconsciously. It's the same in life.
SPEAKER_01:I feel that so much. Right. Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02:This stuff is simple, and we know it in some areas of our life, and we just don't get it in other areas of life. But that's been my big philosophy. It's just take one element, share it in another, and then boom, you have your eureka moment.
SPEAKER_01:That's so powerful. It's good, it's really good.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, okay, just there. Thank god it's recorded. But it it uh yeah, I I I think life starts to get a lot lot easier when you can see uh it's clues, and there's clues in one area of your life that oftentimes we just don't want to take into another. We're baffled by another area, but in a matter of fact, there's correlations.
SPEAKER_01:So sometimes I think I think back on like because you know, for for example, for example, now where I feel like I'm really being stretched, I'm like, am I being stretched because I'm doing something that I shouldn't be doing? Am I feeling burned out or am I just feeling stretched? Or like, am I really, really doing what I should be doing and like just feeling a bit tired?
SPEAKER_02:Do you want to check in? From that.
SPEAKER_00:I would like to check in, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so let me take you through an exercise. Let's put your two feet on the ground, right? Let's go. Yeah, okay, let's put your hands on your knees. I'm gonna invite you to close your eyes. The reason why you're closing your eyes is just to bring your eyes internal. And you're gonna breathe as slowly as you can in through your nose, and then as slowly as you can back out through your nose. The breath is great, helping you tune into your body. And there's two operating systems. You have your head, which is very logical, full of thoughts, full of ideas that are impressed upon you. And you have your heart at the center of your body, which has a kind of a deeper knowing, a deeper kind of wisdom. So I'm gonna invite you to wriggle your toes. The idea is to get you more into your body and out of your head. I'm gonna invite you to turn your palms up. Palms are like an extension of the heart, and the idea of opening them up is just opening yourself up that little bit more. You're gonna breathe in a little bit more and then breathe out. Take your right hand, put it over your heart. Take your left hand, put it over your right. And this time, when you breathe in slowly into your heart, feel it almost expand into your hands. The idea is just to bring about a bigger connection with your heart. And in a moment they're gonna ask you a question, and what's so nice is that you'll hear two voices. One will answer before I've even finished asking the question. And another, your head, will start rationalizing it. Bringing up fears, bringing up ideas. But what we're gonna listen to is the first voice that comes up, that's your heart. I'm gonna ask you, are you happy with what you're doing right now? And a smile comes across your face, so what came out for you?
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Lovely. What do you love most about what you're doing right now?
SPEAKER_01:Being able to share that with others.
SPEAKER_02:Lovely. And is there anything that you could be doing differently right now?
SPEAKER_01:Taking better care of uh yourself. My health, yeah. Lovely. My health, my social life, my everything, really, real like health-wise.
SPEAKER_02:Lovely, lovely. That exercise for me fascinates, right? Because there's a voice that calls out from the heart. The quicker you speak, the quicker you're speaking from your heart. If you delay, your head gets in the way. And it's fascinating what the head might be impressing upon you. But for there, I love what I'm doing, I love helping people, but I need to look after myself a little bit better. And uh, and that's always the challenge. I think anybody in your space where you've a big following, you have a big team, you know, there's a huge amount of keeping up appearances. And when you've a big following saying what they like and what they don't like, it can be hard not to give yourself to them. It can be hard not to deprioritize yourself in the process. But like when you're your most valuable resource, like if you think of that, the better you look after yourself, the better you get to show up for everybody else. Whereas on the inverse of that, if you show put yourself second and you sh spend all your time and your energy showing up for everybody else, unfortunately, you suffer and it becomes harder and harder to show up for them. So, what does you looking after yourself a bit better look like?
SPEAKER_01:Me looking after myself, Jamie. I I love I really love the way that you continue bringing everything together. I think you have a real gift with being able to bring all that that uh that knowledge and those lessons together. I would say that me looking after myself really looks like I've Oh my gosh, growing up, I I was uh surfing three hours a day and then I'd go to the gym another two hours a day. So I just loved being active, being in my body, moving my body, going, you know, surfing and just being outside, being in nature and uh playing like a little kid, really. So more time for for play and more time to physically push myself, yeah, really physically push myself. So I started going to the gym a little more recently. Before that, I would uh just train outside here and there, but I was I was I would just get so carried away with with work, right? So me showing up for myself in that sense and being very intentional with the way that I'm spending my time now, yeah. With uh those things that I know really are really important for my for my health is is super important. So me taking care of myself would be me being more intentional with those things that I know light me up and bring me back to my to my body.
SPEAKER_02:It's funny. I I I feel it's hard to be you can't really be in two places at once. Most of work is in our heads. There's strategy, there's logic, there's lots of thinking. And so the more we're in our head, the more we're out of our body, the less we feel. And and that makes a lot of sense why we could be in our heads not realizing our bodies are stressed, we're tired, we're just go, go, go, go, go. And it also makes it harder to feel into your body because well, if you if you've stressed yourself and you've exhausted yourself, the second you feel into your body, all you're gonna feel is like, ugh. And uh yeah, I I find this. And the the interesting thing for me is like the more you get out of your head, the more you're in your body, well, if you can only be in one place at a time, your head gets time to relax. It's kind of why like people are like, Oh, go for a walk in nature. But what it really is is somebody's getting out of their head into their body, their head can relax, and they start connecting with their feelings, which is a huge voice and a huge wisdom, which generally speaking, we don't lean into enough for answers.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Uh and I I yeah, that that like if someone was like, Jamie, what's at the heart of your work with people? It's that exercise. Just connecting with their hearts. I I think our hearts have all the answers. I think our heads, we use our we use our heads oftentimes for instinctual instinctual thinking, which it's crap at. It's great at strategy. It's great, great at like yeah, strategy, structure, logic. Crap, a creative. Our hearts, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I I really I love it. You were saying, you're saying that that's that's that's the heart of your work, and I really love it that you say that. And that that was like what I was seeing happening earlier as well. It's like for for most people, you know, growing up in um such a fast-paced world, we never have that time to really just slow down, being like, what's actually what's actually going on in my in my body and in my heart?
SPEAKER_02:I was about to be like, oh Jared, let's go into your heart now. It's intimidating though. Like it is intimidating when you check in, like, say if you're like, oh, I'm on my busiest week and like you know, everything's hanging on this big presentation or something, your heart's like, yeah, let's slow down. We need to slow down. It's like, no, no, we we can't slow down, unfortunately. Um that's a fun, that's a fun one when like really your heart and your body is calling for something at complete conflict. Like we, I think so. The immediate jump that comes up is relationship. Like, there's a lot of times we know a relationship is over before it before it has, or we know we shouldn't be sitting in a friendship that we are, and that time that like I think sometimes people wonder, it's like I I don't have a good instinct. It's like, yeah, because you have shat on it for so long and you've told it to shut up for so often. Because like listening to your heart is so bloody disruptive, and when we can't see beyond the horizon, all we can see is this disruption that it's going to cause in the present sense. We don't see actually there's magic unfolding if we just trust. Um, and again, that's like the heart of yeah, this work is like trust that although it may be disruptive in the initial sense, it will make so much more sense as it goes forward.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So various so for you, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:What is that? Actually, when you really feel into your heart, then like as you look forward, you're obviously you're going back and you're helping your younger self with this program. Um, but what's it all about? Like, is it living life on your terms, living free?
SPEAKER_03:Hmm.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, the the program itself that we have, it's like I was really thinking about that that message and the and that mission that we had from the from the start of it in wanting to share that with other people. Do what you're passionate about, passionate people will save the world. I've created content for the last five years. I'm gonna teach other people how to do that, but I'm not gonna tell you to create travel content, whatever it is. Just do you know, follow follow this path. We'll show you how to get there, how to get, let's say, pay to create, but don't box yourself into one thing. I want your personality, your your heart and your passion to shine. What was the question?
SPEAKER_02:No, I'm I'm I'm curious when you think of like, because you're pretty established. You built a big following, got a load of people aspiring to follow in your footsteps. And I'm curious when you tune into your heart, what comes up in terms of that like future point, what you're working towards? Because it seems like you're working hard, you're doing a lot. Like you you talked about, like I could have settled, could have settled just doing what I was doing, but you're not, you're driving forward.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and you know what there's there's there's really two there's two sides to it. There's two sides to that that future thing there were me. I also got to a point where you know, for the last, let's say four or five years, I've been working with with brands and other people that are funding my projects and paying me for um the projects that that were that we're you know hosting on social media. And after a while, there is there is that pressure to need to create a certain need to create things in a certain way so that I could uh be able to earn more for uh for the work that I was that I was uh doing as well. So there's that there is uh you know that that sense of like my voice being taken away because I'm getting paid to be a certain way, basically.
SPEAKER_02:Um sorry, my head is just going like click because money is freedom.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so so so where where I'm going to right now, so like for for the future of what I'm personally creating now, for example, or like the current state that I'm that I'm in, is I got to that that point where working with brands has actually felt like it was in a in a way taking away from my freedom. Yeah, so creating a community where I was teaching that older version of myself exactly how to do what I'm doing a lot faster, yeah. Um actually, in a in a sense, gives me the ability to continue freeing my own voice so that I can also continue being let me just understand then.
SPEAKER_02:So build a career as a travel influencer. Brands play it pay you to kind of piggyback on the content, which starts to hijack content to a level, to a degree. My words, not yours. But but then actually it becomes a bit bigger business of like hell, I can actually show people how to do this, and in doing that, actually I become a teacher, which is me as more authority, and it deleverages me against brands as well. I get to feel more free, so that becomes an ever a next evolutionary move. And what I'm kind of feeling, I keep poking, I'm like, what's the end goal? What's the end goal? And you're like, Jamie, it's freedom. But the freedom is like the freedom evolves to yourself of 10 years ago, the idea of traveling the world and working with brands, that's freedom. Beyond that, actually helping students, that's freedom. Beyond that, it's like, oh Jamie, I'm just sitting in a shack on the side of a beach, surfing each day, don't need to worry about anything. Perhaps. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Could be. I love it that you say that. There there really is that that natural evolution, and it doesn't look the same to yeah, as we continue to grow that that next level of freedom starts to change.
SPEAKER_02:I I like to look at life as like stepping stones. I'm like following the white rabbit of just like next step, next step, next step. And it's it's curious. Like I feel oftentimes our lives get a bit paralyzed when we're trying to think too far beyond the horizon, too far ahead. We're trying to be too smart, too ambitious. But if we I generally think there's always a next move, and that next move is uh yeah, that next yeah, there's always a next move, it's always obvious, and it's right in front of you. If you just do that, the next one reveals itself, and so on and so forth. Till 10 years later, you look back and you're like, oh my god. That's that's that's Steve Jobs quote that life makes sense when you look back, yes, yeah. But it's very rarely does when you look forward. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, does it ever make sense when you're just in it? In it, present, like really in it. I I think so. Yeah, like I I it's the trust.
SPEAKER_02:It's a beautiful thing, actually, to be able to let go of any future thinking, any past thinking, like to have a moment where you're just fully present. Oftentimes that's actually in these conversations. I find a good conversation has a great way of captivating you to the point that you forget about the past, forget about the future, and it pulls you into a present. It's kind of why, like, there's a couple of things that are really powerful and therapeutic. Like, I think a lot of therapists, they're like they're all they're doing is having a chat, but that in itself is therapy because they're helping somebody just get present. Um, there's magic in that. I think like sex. Sex when your head is in a different world. Unfortunately, that's got to probably bring up a whole lot of different different issues. But if you are completely surrendered in presence, I I've really subscribed to that idea of sexual healing. That presence is magical, and like actually at the heart of meditation, it's like clear your mind and just be present. So, yeah, I I I think perhaps if we make our like our ambitions for what freedom is that a little bit simpler and easier, it actually you can find that freedom that you're looking for, probably in just the stillness of a moment or the beauty of a conversation, or the magic of a special connection.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Gosh, I'm going to my Irish poetry ways here. But like, yeah, would that ring true for you? Yeah, for sure. You surf as well. Yeah. I always hear there's like this great spiritual vibe. I have watched point break too many times. Yeah, it's gonna ride that wave, bro.
SPEAKER_01:Just that whole life wave. Yeah, I mean, when you're in the water. Now now I'm gonna dive into it. You're like, man, when you're when you're in the water. You know, I'm gonna listen.
SPEAKER_02:Nothing else matters. I'm gonna edit that little part out and be like, meet Jaro. In the water, man. Nothing else matters. A surfer, would you believe? Nothing else matters, bro. But yeah, I I like I I actually I don't surf, but I bob. I like I jump into the sea and I love just bobbing up and down with the waves.
SPEAKER_01:But even then you're very present because you have to be. Otherwise, you'd probably get hit in the face with a surfboard.
SPEAKER_02:Well, there's this weird I think there's this weird, I think there's a confusion, right, with so much of what we do in life. So, for example, sake, if you're learning to surf, you learn to pop up, you learn to read the waves, you learn to do it again and again and again and again and again and again and again till it becomes automatic. And then actually, what you're really doing is just you're surrendering to that inner knowledge that's built up inside you. So when I jump into the sea, I just actually find myself surrendering, and my body just starts doing weird shit, it finds its way to like curl with the waves and bounce up and down, and it's lovely. It is a very present surrender, and and yeah, I I I actually think that's that's that's where we perhaps we forget. Like, I remember I used to do a lot of public speaking, and I used to think like I need to get up on that stage and I need to entertain these people, and I need to do such a good job, and panic attacks would come. I'm like, damn it. But then when I started to just work with myself and be like, look, just show up however you are, like and have faith that for how me, however I was, was enough. This like this magic would start to unfold, this flow state, right? And I think I I my belief, and I'm curious to ask, is like a surfer, a spiritual surfer, is like it's not about like it's it's probably perhaps once you get over the thousand hours of practice and you get into these flow states where you almost automatically read a wave, pop up, catch it, and you enjoy this flow. Would that be?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, sir that surfing would be one thing, right? But I mean, people love what's it called when you're running in the mountains? Mountain mountain, mountain climbing? Like when you're when you're trail running, for example. Yeah, yeah. Trail running or or I mean uh you know, other other sports, biking, things that um I would say they when when I talk about getting back into my body, it's it's really it's really that. It's where it's really coming back into um into flow state. And you know, with surfing, it just it does it does really get more and more and more fun. But I would say that that feeling I've I've I've gotten from surfing was was a lot was after a lot less than a thousand hours. It was just the joy of being.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I sorry, I the thousand hours pops up as I think there's something that like if you do a thousand hours, you'll master it. But like, yeah, I uh for me a huge thing was always heady hock hack a learning process. And it's like find find the best surfers book, or perhaps just watch the best surfer in action, or oh my god, get a lesson with them, which essentially part of your program, part of my program. I do it as well. I think that idea of I think it's actually such a cool time that we live in where you get to like tune in online and find the person that inspires you and just piggyback off. It's so good. It's so good because it's not, yeah, it's it's not about a thousand hours, it's actually like can you do it in a hundred? Could you do it in fifty? Yeah, yeah. I I got really excited about AI that I think.
SPEAKER_01:What what Jamie? I'm curious, like what what is what is that one thing that brings you back into your into your body or in in in the flow state, you know, for flow state.
SPEAKER_02:Oh god, no, Jesus. Uh that's uh what why did I say that? Um Jamie, don't lie. But it but it is an interesting, like I do think that's why a lot of people would probably do drugs, is because it stop it knocks off the head and it brings out a more um a more playful, authentic self or state. Um I love dancing, um, but only like when it's really good music, the kind of music that makes you want to dance. Because I find oftentimes I'm like sitting there and I'm like, I don't want to dance, but my body's like, yeah, but we do, we do. Uh swimming, as I talked to you about that, like that for me, and it's funny actually, there's always a resistance now. Don't think about it. Like when I go for a swim, my body's like, it's cold there. Do you really want to get wet? Wet, you have to have a shower. But then as soon as I'm in, I'm like literally like a pig in shit, or happy as a kid could be. Um I I yeah, I I so I like, yeah, the the are a good conversation. And again, I think sometimes like even even if we rewind this conversation to the start, it's always the first 10-15 minutes. There's a bit of like and then there's flows, and even I would say, even in this conversation, there's like moments of let's say comes together, flows, and then it pulls back, and it's like, where is this going? Oh, it's back in and flow. I I take huge joy out of conversations. I I realized years ago that I learned so much faster in conversation than I ever do reading a book or sitting in a classroom. Um so conversations for me are beautiful, swims in the sea are fantastic, dancing euphor, like euphoric moments, beautiful. Um yeah, those are what like what come up for me. I've kind of got yours in terms of uh surfing, but what else comes up for you?
SPEAKER_01:Surfing, like climbing trees. Cool. Climbing trees. Yeah, I I learned uh well, I I was actually I was uh in in in the north of Bali. I'm friends with one of the second deadly one of the second best deadly snake handlers in the world, and he spends uh some time here in Bali, so we went into the jungle together, and we just survived in the jungle for three days. Holy shit. Here in Bali. Just uh yeah, just with some shorts and we were like we were like eating eating bats and frogs and like basically everything we could find, and we had to like make our own fires and uh wait, are bats tasty? Um yeah, it's kind of like uh chicken. Oh my gosh, belling. Yeah, you could you could you could bleep that out. No, no, it did not eat bats. Um uh but anyway, so I when I was with this guy, he he actually he loves climbing trees. He was teaching us how to climb these big, you know, banyan banyan trees, for example, that you'd see around Bali, the ones with lots of roots and stuff. Um, so that, for example, yeah, yeah, come coming into my body one uh through different through different like sporty activities, surfing, climbing trees, but being in community. Being in community is uh, I think one one other thing is like when I'm with somebody else that I can just feel like I can be my whole self with. Somebody that I could just you know, belly laugh with, somebody that I could laugh until I freaking cry with.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I love those moments where you just actually funny. Cooking. Cooking, cooking, food was coming up, but food for me is actually like a bit of a coping mechanism. When I'm stressed, suddenly I'm like oh into food. But I realized cooking is something that it brings me a lot of joy. Like the idea of going out. I I always notice I like I don't know what ingredients I'm getting, but they all seem to make sense when I'm together and start cooking them all up. Cooking's a big one, yeah. Wow. I am yeah. Uh thank you for the wandering chats of all chats. This has been nice to just drop into your world and your mind for a minute.
SPEAKER_01:I feel that it's been it's been uh yeah, very what's the word? Very rounded. What a what a journey that this this uh conversation's been so far, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well that that for me was like I I I think at the heart of this, what we were talking about is not performing, and in actual fact, just letting people in. And you quoted Gary Vaynerchuk brilliantly when it was like just document, yes, and uh and you know that's actually exactly what I said. I was like, let's just have a chat, which is exactly what we've done, and it's very marmitey. Some people might hate it, some people might love it, but in actual fact, it's just like, well, let me let you in on our world. So thank you for having the trust uh and surrender to do exactly that.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you, Jamie. I feel really grateful for that opportunity to be able to share and be a bit more of myself.
SPEAKER_02:Aha. So this is you behind the lens.
SPEAKER_01:Find out right now, just like so. Thank you very much. Like, I really, really appreciate you coming here today. Lovely, dude.
SPEAKER_02:An absolute pleasure. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Such a legend, cheers, Jamie.